A Handstamp interview with Chris Black: Pizza place punk, flying solo, band tees and indie rock Make-a-Wish
The 'How Long Gone' podcast host has his say on the live music experience.
Writer, podcast host and former band manager Chris Black piles up the air miles. Luckily, I was able to identify a time when the Atlanta native wasn’t earning Delta points and was on terra firma, in his New York home, likely working on his upcoming book.
After some small talk about the undeniable aura of legendary How Long Gone guest Eli Zabar, as well as his favourite London spots, I asked about some recent Waxahatchee and Father John Misty shows Black had attended.
Chris Black: “Those are two good examples of artists that I really love. Katie (Crutchfield, Waxahatchee) is as good as it gets. ‘Tigers Blood’ is an all-timer. We’re close and she’s great. She is doing a tour with Wilco this year and I might ride the bus for a few days, because it’s just two of my favourite things.”
“Josh (Tillman, Father John Misty), I went to see him open for Kacey Musgraves in Grand Rapids, Michigan because it was the only date that I could make, so I flew out there and it was awesome. It was before the new record came out, but I knew enough of the stuff to really enjoy it. People don’t do it like him anymore, performance wise. He’s really giving it to you out there. He’s one of those rare performers that you could bring somebody new to see and they’d leave a fan, based on the showmanship alone.’
Handstamp: I just saw Misty over at the Royal Albert Hall, incredible show.
CB: “It’s must-see. I’ve always been a fan but the new record feels like it’s put him back where he belongs because it’s so undeniable. The show is somehow as good, if not even better than the record, which is unbelievable.”
Handstamp: I definitely think he benefitted from taking a step back from people fascinating over his ‘persona’ for a while, before hitting us with that record.
CB: “I think so too. That’s the whole reason he hadn’t done press for a while, which is why I was so happy when he decided to do ‘How Long Gone’. He listens, but when you haven’t talked much publicly for years, I like to think we offer a safe landing for somebody who wants to re-enter the conversation.”
Handstamp: Probably nice to do a public-facing interview that isn’t just honing-in on process.
CB: “Yeah, people ARE interested in that but you can get it anywhere, really. That’s what Rolling Stone, Pitchfork and Stereogum exist for, which are things I look at every day but that’s the kind of conversation we try to avoid.”
Handstamp: Going back to Katie, talk to me about you guys collaborating for your Lemonheads cover..
CB: “I joke about it, calling it ‘indie-rock Make-a-Wish Foundation’. It was an idea that came from a ‘How Long Gone’ show in Boston, which Kevin (Morby) and Katie came to and they played, we did a few covers, one of which was ‘My Drug Buddy’ by The Lemonheads. I sang it with them and Kevin said ‘we’re gonna record this’. Eventually like a year later he sent me a video of himself at Brad Cook’s studio recording it. So I thought ‘shit, I better do this.’
“So I went down to Durham for the weekend and Katie, Jake (MJ Lenderman) were there. Katie sang, Jake played the drums, then Brad knew Evan’s (Dando, The Lemonheads) engineer, so he got Evan to send some vocal takes that are buried in the mix. It was so fun to do, very encouraging and fun, I feel really lucky that I got to do it.”
Handstamp: Dream stuff. Do you have musical performance in your past?
CB: “I mean, I was in a hardcore band in high school. I am having to think about that time of my life a little bit more right now, because I’m working on a book. It is interesting how much I performed in front of people but it feels… fake. It would be in front of hundreds of people, Hardcore was big and Atlanta had a good scene, but it’s so long ago I barely can recall how it made me feel.”
Handstamp: On Atlanta, did you have super-early opportunities to see live music growing up there?
CB: “I did when I was 12 or 13. My friend moved to Atlanta from Richmond, where he had been exposed to some punk stuff. Basically, through that we learned where to go, our parents would take us downtown, we’d pay our $5 and we’d see shows in basements, weird VFW things or pizza places. Through that, it just sort of became my life.’
“The hardcore shows were often in a place called ‘Under the Coach’, which everybody who participated in the scene will remember. It was owned and operated by the local university and I saw huge acts there. It held like 300 people max, but I saw some great bands.”
Handstamp: Can you recall the first show you saw?
CB: “I’m pretty sure it was Quadiliacha – an Atlanta punk band at a pizza place when I was 12. My parents weren’t super into music, so I had to sort of seek it out myself or maybe it found me, honestly.”
Handstamp: The good thing about waiting a while before you see your first show is that it reduces the chances of it being humiliating in anyway.
CB: “Yeah, we just weren’t a musical household. I have a lot of friends who have parents who put them onto great stuff and I’m both jealous of that but also pleased about how I went out there to find it myself.”
Handstamp: Well, you certainly did and then it resulted in you managing an act, how did that happen?
CB: “I managed a band of guys I grew up with, they were called Cartel. We did a couple of records with Epic, a reality show. It was pretty real; they had a top-10 single for a week in the TRL era. At that time I mostly just saw them play and it sparked a phase where I really didn’t care about going to see shows anymore. I just had my head down, thinking about music from a business point of view.’
“Since ‘How Long Gone’ started, partly because I have more access, I have gone to as much stuff as I can. I have realised that’s actually what I like. For example, I’m bummed I just missed a Cameron Winter show, excited to eventually see him.”
Handstamp: That’s a very hot ticket right now. Feels like a special moment for Cameron. It’s rare to do a solo record this early into your career and have it sort of critically eclipse your well-loved band. He just played a church in Hackney, it was pretty breathtaking.
CB: “Exactly. Everybody who has seen him tour this record says it’s fucking crazy. I’ve caught a lot of stuff like that, shows that feel important for the artist. I saw The XX’s first show in New York for example. All the bands that are reuniting now, I’ve seen most of them because I was lucky to be there the first time.”
Handstamp: On the other end of the scale, do you enjoy mega arena shows?
CB: “I’ll never say no to a pass for one of those shows. I’ve seen U2, Rihanna and The Police’s last show at MSG, because I just want to see how they pull it off at that level. I like experiencing ‘events’ like that, you know? Even on a smaller scale, things like seeing Charli (XCX) at the Boiler Room in Bushwick last year, I felt like it was a thing I needed to be at. It was an experience.”
Handstamp: Wow, you’re also pushing your sobriety to its absolute limit in a room like that.
CB: “Oh, dude it was unbelievable. I mean, look, I said my hello’s, watched for 45 minutes to an hour and I was out. But going to see George (Daniel, The 1975) do his DJ stuff with Charli, it’s a different experience for me, I don’t do stuff like that and never have, but I feel like I should know it works. That’s a big part of what Jason’s (Stewart, DJ & How Long Gone co-host) into and I want to understand it for that reason.”
Handstamp: Leaving after 45 minutes, is that usual for you?
CB: “Oh, an hour is all I need. The last time I stayed until the end of a show was when my wife and I travelled to Philadelphia to see Katie play and we were hanging out after. Anything else, I try to leave early. I went to see The Killers at the O2 (Arena, London), it was fucking unbelievable. I was there by myself, had looked at Setlist.fm and knew what was going on, decided to leave before the encore because I can’t deal with the crowd. It depends where it is though, in New York it’s different because you can just walk outside and get home, but going to The Forum in L.A. for example, it’s going to take at least an hour.”
Handstamp: Was that the show they played the end of the England game before ‘Mr Brightside’?
CB: “It was that run of shows but not that show. It was a great trip to London, I also saw Kevin play in a park (Crystal Palace) with The National, who I’d never seen before, despite being a pretty big fan.”
Handstamp: Do you have any real bugbears when it comes to audience behaviour?
CB: “Well, the phone thing doesn’t bother me that much. When artists go on anti-phone tirades, I sort of think, ‘well, don’t play then.’ Weirdly nobody records ‘How Long Gone’ shows, they’ll take a picture but no videos.”
Handstamp: I guess it feels strange to record a conversation, perhaps it’s a bit more invasive and personal. It’s also more specific to that night, while music is pre-recorded, you know what you’re getting.
CB: “Oh yeah, for sure. There are definite differences. But no, no real rules for me, except leaving early. That’s why I really respect when artists play ‘the hit’ first. I remember seeing Vanessa Carlton in L.A. and she opened with ‘A Thousand Miles’ and said ‘alright, if that’s what you came for then you can go..’, which was so cool.”
Handstamp: Did people leave?
CB: “No, she knows at this stage it’s just the real fans coming to her shows. I think more people will do that, It’s pretty powerful.”
Handstamp: Yeah, that is smart. Hardly anybody is ever going to leave and then the people in the room are sort of tied into an agreement to not be a dickhead.
CB: “Yeah, they lost!”
Handstamp: I’m 6’5 with shoes on. You’re around the same size. How do you navigate height politics at shows?
CB: “I don’t get involved. I’m happy to stand at the back, I don’t need to be in the front. Most things I go to, I get there at the exact time and leave early. I buy my $10 bottle of water, see my thing and head out, I don’t want any problems with anybody.”
Handstamp: Sounds like you relish attending shows solo?
CB: “If it’s something I know a friend wants to go to, I will bring them along. I took a friend to see the ‘BRAT’ tour, I took a friend to see Pavement, I took my wife to see Father John Misty, but yeah, I’m happy to go alone. Ryan Adams is doing ’25 years of Heartbreaker’, nobody wants to go with me, I don’t give a shit. I flew to see Morrissey alone in Vegas, I just don’t feel that experience needs to be shared with somebody else necessarily.”
Handstamp: From those last two examples and listening to your podcast, I have picked up that you are strongly committed to respecting art regardless of the artist.
CB: “Obviously it depends on how serious the situation is, but with some stuff, how do you expect me to act like I don’t like something? Morrissey is a great example, he’s one of the most important artists of my and many other people’s lives. I think it’s very hard to turn that part of your brain off and it’s crazy to expect that. You can choose whether or not to support the artist financially, I get that, but I can’t disconnect from his work because of his bad politics.’
“It’s very common too. The best example is Chris Brown. It was really gnarly, we saw that terrible photo of what he did and even though it was awful, Rihanna forgave him but society will never forgive him, which is probably right, but he can still sell out arenas around the world and even though he’s not on the radio, his music is still super popular.”
Handstamp: Yeah, you can be removed from the zeitgeist, publications can stop paying attention but in terms of making a living, for good or bad, only your audience can cancel you.
CB: “For sure. If you have an audience that are dedicated to you, they don’t care what you do. Within reason, that’s good – Chris Brown has been a monster, Puff Daddy was a monster. Also, different scenes judge things differently, depending on the artist. Brand New is coming back, which I don’t really care about, but everybody seems excited and it’s interesting to see where people draw the line, depending on their personal taste.”
Handstamp: How much do you think about your outfit when you go to a show?
CB: “Not very much. I kind of wear the same thing for a week at a time. With shows, I think it’s whatever. I also really don’t like being hot, which is a consideration for those situations. I need to be cool, that’s my number one priority.”
Handstamp: I like the idea of you attending shows in breathable workout gear.
CB: “I’ve just been in too many situations where I think ‘why am I wearing a fucking cashmere sweater right now?’”
Handstamp: Do you reach for band tees?
CB: “I would never wear one to a show. I wear them a lot in general, but something about that feels weird to me.”
Handstamp: On paper, it’s the most appropriate time to wear them, but I get it, it feels like you’re trying to say something.
CB: “Yeah, I don’t need the audience to know I love an act that we ALL obviously love, based on the show.”
Handstamp: Especially when you wear the shirt of the artist you’re seeing. Sort of feels like wearing a sport jersey.
CB: “I DO like when bands wear their own merch though.”
Handstamp: Yes and I like when an artist really openly asks the audience to buy merch. Ok, what is your favourite New York venue?
CB: “Bowery Ballroom.”
Handstamp: Are there any live recordings you regularly revisit?
CB: “It’s all I do. I watch live performance on YouTube. There’s a really great video of The Gin Blossoms at Farm Aid, I don’t know what year. Or like, Wilco playing at a Ski Lodge for MTV, I love that sort of thing. Especially the Letterman, Conan era, when late night shows would have indie bands on, which we may now be coming back to.”
Handstamp: Sort of like what we have with Jools Holland over here.
CB: “Oh, yeah, that’s a better version of what we do.”
Handstamp: Jools Holland’s show has been huge for me, but I think the rise of self-made video sessions has diminished it’s cultural impact maybe?
CB: “Maybe. It reminds me of SNL performances, in that it’s really hard to be good and when you see somebody like Maggie Rogers nail it, it’s impressive. I could talk about my YouTube music binges all day.”
You can follow Chris Black @donetodeath and listen to How Long Gone twice a week on your preferred podcast platform. Subscribe to Handstamp Substack for future interviews, follow @itshandstamp on social media and listen to Chief Springs on your chosen platform. Illustrations by the excellent Alice Bowsher.